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The trajectory of E2E-encryption is about de-platforming: There shall be no central machines that can control the edges/peers, and the social groups and virtual centers they freely form.
Our #deltachat R&D around #chatmail relays and #webxdc apps all aim to realize such a "zero-platforms" fully E2E-encrypted interaction model. However, this is *not* just about cryptographic cleverness. Rather it is about usable anti-authoritarian designs, as explicitly stated in January https://delta.chat/en/2025-01-23-webxdc-no-billionaires
delta.chatDelta Chat: Replacing billionairish platforms with ZIP files
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Delta Chat
Do you struggle to keep your #TOTP secrets synced and backed up properly? Do you wish you could give a group of people access to ephemeral authentication tokens? Then TOTP #webxdc from @rtn might be for you! Cross platform multi-device support means that you can use these tokens from any device, and you have a natural backup should one device go bust. As with all webxdc apps there is no server hosting involved. Everything is only visible on respective devices and end-to-end encrypted between
oh, wow. We just heard from @darestiet that there is an upcoming #webxdc #hackday workshop called "Transcend the limits of your group chats: collaborative apps" ...
WHERE: townhall of city of #Moers
WHEN: Saturday afternoon 2pm.
We can't remember to have heart about this before so it's very short notice only, maybe still interesting for people around Dortmund/Duesseldorf
www.moers.deHackday 2025: Überwinde die Grenzen Deiner Gruppenchats: Kollaborative dezentrale Apps mit JavaScript | Stadt Moers
@risottobias @ryanprior these general app store considerations and critiques are valid but have no meaning in the context of #webxdc apps. They are zip files, anyone can put them into a chat. Anyone can curate/maintain their own list of interesting zip files. https://webxdc.org/apps is just a community collection. Users don't need to go there to get or use an app. Apps also don't get updated in-place. Once posted, they stay exactly the same.
webxdc.orgwebxdc apps
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@Ketakater @ryanprior @risottobias apps like checklist or "split bill" are less than 100KB.
The Pixel app is 241 lines of Javascript without any dependency: 3900 bytes including an icon. https://codeberg.org/webxdc/pixel/src/branch/main/script.js
#webxdc apps are very very minimal and all come with inspectable source code. There are no http requests at all. So it's not even that hard to verify there are no side channel attempts in most existing appa. An app literally is a zip-file btw, see also https://delta.chat/en/2025-01-23-webxdc-no-billionaires
Codeberg.orgpixel/script.js a mainpixel - Pixel editor
Dear fans of messenger comparison sports,
How does it factor in that on #deltachat there are many apps that can be used in a chat without requiring a login or even a privacy policy ... And the apps all work like cryptpad but automatically and without requiring any server side hosting?
Editing documents and checklists and calendars are all safely end-to-end encrypted without a server and anyone can write new #webxdc apps permission free.
Which other cross-platform messenger offers this?
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working on webxdc support in #deltatauri
Just finished implementing all the webxdc.js apis, the next steps are about hardening the sandboxing in preparation for the security audit together with @WofWca
Another #deltachat release highlight that we didn't tell about yet: De-duplication of attachments and media files. De-duplication means that if you share a larger file to multiple chats, it will only ever exist once in each sending and receiving device's storage.
Same for #webxdc apps -- so if you use the 650KB big "v86emu" app running 32-bit ISO images, it will also only exist once in storage, even if each instance in a chat creates its own realtime LAN. Mini-tutorial https://chaos.social/@delta/114161626183191989
chaos.socialDelta Chat (@delta@chaos.social)Allegato: 3 immagini
@RandamuMaki@mstdn.social @gmc@friends.chasmcity.net no bigger write up, but if you have a desktop:
Go to message input, attach-app and select "v86 emu" app and start it.
Inside v86 app "Choose file", select an iso (download for example https://dl-cdn.alpinelinux.org/alpine/v3.21/releases/x86/alpine-standard-3.21.3-x86.iso) and hit "Start" button. Login as "Root", no password.
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@gmc great and welcome :) did you try out the v86 app in a chat yet? It allows to run 32bit iso images, and if you configure eth0 on multiple devices the chat members will have an end-to-end encrypted private lan (using #webxdc realtime channels). Telnet/netcat/ping etc works. This virtual Ethernet even degrades in performance if too many devices do traffic :) tip: try it better on a desktop not mobile (although should also work)
Finally finished moving all my two factor authentication accounts to TOTP app and can now uninstall Authy!
You can run it in Delta Chat, Monocles and Cheogram. It works nicely on multi-device and therefore codes are backed up and available across devices.
Some of the services that work fine:
- codeberg
- mastodon
- github
- npm
- microsoft
webxdc.orgwebxdc apps
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@SrRochardBunson @adnan we generally recommend to start by switching together with family, friends or existing special-interest groups or small activist orgs. #webxdc apps (calendar, editor, games) can provide a real functionality benefit, so it's not "just" about ethics. This approach won't immediately replace all WhatsApp usage but is a good base to expand from. Anyone who gets added to a group will immediately have secure contact and chats with all group members, also in DMs with them.
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@ity #webxdc is a shared spec and joint impelemntation with eg #cheogram and #monocles ... It has nothing to do with proton. Webxdc apps are shared in a chat and run inside the messenger. Proton does not have a messenger. Webxdc apps work on all platforms that #webxdc messengers are released for, including @deltatouch , an Ubuntu based phone. DeltaTouch runs all webxdc apps including the realtime p2p ones. @lk108 is doing an incredible job :)
√ 
- Ersten Stromausfall gut überstanden. Also meine Geräte... alle #Netze, #Mobil, #Glasfaser, #Kupfer waren gestört. Als erstes kam das mobile Netz der #Telekom wieder, ließ aber keinen Aufbau eines #VPN zu, verteilte auch keine #IPv6.
=> #auswandern
Das mit dem #Streaming ist und bleibt Mist. Selbst im gleichen #WLAN belastet es die Infrastruktur so übermaßen, dass neben #Abstürzen wohl auch eine erheblich kürzere Lebenerwartung zu befürchten ist. Der beste Weg des #Datenmanagements ist und bleibt #webdav. Hier können Mediendateien und Dokumente bequem synchronisiert und damit auch gleichzeitig gesichert und auf dem #Endgerät genutzt werden.
#DeltaChat mit #chatmail, #deltabots und #webxdc anstelle der meisten Apps zu nutzen funktioniert - fast. Hier fehlt es eindeutig an #Unterstützung einer #freien, #dezentralen und #basisdemokratischen #Entwicklung und #Infrastruktur, weil offenbar jegliches #Verständnis für die #Wurzeln des #Internet verloren gegangen ist - auch und besonders bei den sogenannten #Experten.
Statt auf #Marken sollte der Fokus endlich wieder auf #Zielen, #Zwecken und #Protokolken liegen - und auf Datensparsamkeit und Datenklarheit.
Hier haben die Menschen rund um dieses Projekt Großartiges und über die Informatik hinaus Wertvolles für die gesamte #Wissenschaft geleistet - die allerdings nicht mehr #frei ist, sondern gleichfalls längst unter dem Büttel des #Wirtschaftsfaschismus steht. Das gilt auch für #Mastodon, was das #Fedivers in eine Richtung zieht, die mir gar nicht gefällt.
Unterstützung heißt nicht, mit #Geldspenden das Gewissen zu beruhigen - wo bei wir alle Geld gut gebrauchen können, um weiter zu machen. Unterstützung heißt #mitmachen. Einfach mal #DeltaChat installieren und ausprobieren - und versuchen, zu verstehen.
social.selbstlernserver.dePleroma
DeltaTouch 1.12.0 is out, highlights:
Sync deletion of messages and chats across devices
Page sized text editor for longer messages Webxdc: Notifications (and more) Improved integration into UT (ContentHub import/share)
Also included: Preparation for the long-awaited feature teased by @delta 
https://chaos.social/@delta/114126529706721026
Full changelog: https://codeberg.org/lk108/deltatouch/src/branch/xenial/CHANGELOG
Webxdc support in DeltaTouch is generously funded by @nlnet / @NGIZero, thanks!
chaos.socialDelta Chat (@delta@chaos.social)Allegato: 1 immagine
Release cycle completed. Please update so we can initiate the next release round with a long awaited feature ;) Generally delta apps are compatible to all currently released apps and because 15+ app stores come with all kinds of shenegigans and delays it sometimes takes two cycles to roll out new features, one forward compatible one and then the actual enabling one. We usually also try to degrade nicely if installed versions are further than a version apart. No worries ;)
After trying out #deltachat and #arcanechat, I've discovered the #webxdc app store. My Dad loves #Sudoku puzzles, and I was tempted to play some competitive Sudoku with him. What assurance is there that there are no sketchy apps in the webxdc app store? Can these apps break out of their little jail, and root my phone? What would the #infosec community say? There's somewhat of a thread on the "threat model"/security of webxdc here (but I think it still needs more scrutiny):
https://support.delta.chat/t/webxdc-threat-model/3018
#puzzle #puzzles #competitive #game #multiplayer
Delta.Chat · WebXDC threat model?Hi, I’ve just came across this WebXDC idea through its implementation in Monocles Chat (which does not appear to be working at the moment, but that’s another story). I am trying to find a description of WebXDC’s threat model and security design considerations, but so far no luck. Would be very grateful if someone could point me to whatever information might be available on those topics.
With #deltachat #chatmail and #webxdc developments we aim to instigate a new modern foundation for secure E-Mail and a resilient Web without platforms. We are building a kind of #minecraft system for modern decentralized messaging.
But who are we building it for?
For all who need reliable trustable means of modern private communication.
While our work needs hackers and experts it's not designed for them. @tante raises interesting and important related thoughts https://tante.cc/2025/03/03/who-is-free-software-for/
Smashing Frames · Who is Free Software for?
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@jpdvm2014 maybe indeed focus on the hard part of onboarding private chat partners? Anyone to share a shopping list with? Or some games? Or a travel checklist? Establish a chat and then "attach" one of many #webxdc apps https://webxdc.org/apps :)
webxdc.orgwebxdc apps
#deltachat community milestones:
Dec 2023: first #chatmail server
Feb 2024: iOS push notifications
March 2024: ETH Zuerich #security analysis
June 2024: Instant onboarding on all clients
Nov 2024: #P2P #webxdc realtime and home-screen apps
Dec 2024: rPGP #security audit, 20 known #chatmail servers world-wide
Jan 2025: new #webxdc store, UI integrated app-picker, webxdc push notifications.
Spring 2025: is coming :)
money used: ~600K EUR, a tiny amount compared to other messengers.